# Update Course Rewind: Pectus Excavatum 2021 — GCMD Library

Did you miss our 9th Annual Update Course last year? Don

Type: podcast · 11 min · posted 2026-07-29
Canonical: https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668

## Chapters
- [0:00](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=0) Cryoanalgesia for Pain Control
- [3:50](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=230) Alternative Pain Management Strategies
- [6:15](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=375) Bar Stability and Measurement
- [8:01](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=481) Surgical Technique Updates

## Statements
- "A 16-year-old male with shortness of breath on exertion, no comorbidities, and pectus index of 5.5 was planned for chest wall reconstruction" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [0:31](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=31)
- "A randomized trial of 110 patients comparing epidural and PCA showed epidurals did not provide adequate pain control" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [1:02](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=62)
- "After implementing cryoanalgesia, a patient went home on post-operative day one, ending equipoise in the trial" — Cecilia Gigena (clinical) [1:21](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=81)
- "Cryoanalgesia uses cold temperatures to cause a conduction block that interrupts pain impulses to the brain" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [1:56](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=116)
- "Cryoanalgesia technique involves freezing ribs four through seven for two minutes per rib; ribs eight and below should not be treated due to risk of abdominal wall paralysis" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [2:09](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=129)
- "Cryoanalgesia reduced hospital length of stay from four days to one day" — Cecilia Gigena (clinical) [2:33](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=153)
- "Cryoanalgesia dramatically reduced median morphine equivalents compared to previous pain management approaches" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [2:43](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=163)
- "There are no long-term studies on cryoanalgesia outcomes, raising concerns about potential chronic neuropathic pain" — Cecilia Gigena (opinion) [2:52](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=172)
- "Medical devices and techniques are not required to undergo clinical trials before market introduction, unlike medications" — Todd Ponsky (guideline) [3:14](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=194)
- "Erector spinae catheters are placed by the pain team with ultrasound guidance, stay in for five days, and allow hospital discharge at two days with family removal of catheters on day three" — Cecilia Gigena (clinical) [3:50](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=230)
- "Erector spinae catheters reduced opioid requirements both in-hospital and post-discharge, achieving two-day hospital stays" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [4:30](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=270)
- "Cryoanalgesia changed not just discharge timing but how patients feel at discharge" — Cecilia Gigena (opinion) [4:52](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=292)
- "Multimodal pain control includes Tylenol, NSAIDs, precedex for gentle wake-up, dexamethasone for nausea, ketamine to avoid opioids, child life specialists, mindfulness resources, and physical therapy" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [5:34](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=334)
- "Best multimodal treatments are preoperative counseling, gabapentin pre and postoperatively, methadone, clonidine, bowel regimen medications, and antiemetics" — Cecilia Gigena (clinical) [6:15](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=375)
- "A multimodal pain regimen achieved hospital length of stay under two days with patients off opioids by one week" — Cecilia Gigena (clinical) [6:15](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=375)
- "Bar flippage typically occurs early due to bars sitting in incorrect intercostal space, poor positioning, inadequate wrapping, or insufficient securing" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [6:26](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=386)
- "Bar flippage is completely a surgical technique issue, not related to the securing method" — Todd Ponsky (opinion) [6:26](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=386)
- "Computational modeling shows shorter flat bars create more pressure on the sternum compared to traditional U-shaped bars, making them more stable" — Cecilia Gigena (clinical) [7:35](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=455)
- "Sternal elevator is used in approximately 10% of cases, primarily in younger patients where thoracoscopy provides adequate visualization" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [8:01](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=481)
- "Sternal elevation in deep, stiff pectus cases allows less tissue damage and better repair" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [8:01](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=481)
- "Sternal elevator enables consistent entry and exit at the same intercostal space" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [8:01](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=481)
- "Thoracoscopy, sternal elevator, vacuum bell, and sub-xiphoid incision are all techniques aimed at preventing cardiac injury" — Cecilia Gigena (clinical) [8:58](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=538)
- "Passing the bar from left to right avoids pointing the introducer directly at the ventricle" — Todd Ponsky (clinical) [9:20](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=560)
- "Bar passage direction is surgeon preference and does not make significant difference if sub-sternal space is well dissected and clear" — Todd Ponsky (opinion) [9:20](https://library.globalcastmd.com/watch/update-course-rewind-pectus-excavatum-2021-13668?t=560)

## Transcript
 If you miss our Stay Current Pediatric Surgery Update course, don't worry, because we are going to summarize our favorite sessions right here on this podcast. Today's episode is all about PACT-Test. We are going to see what is new about perioperative pain control and some rapid-fire updates techniques. This is Cecilia Higiena and I'm a Research Fellow at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. And this is Ellen Ncisco, also a Research Fellow at Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center. First, Dr. Steven Lee from UCLA Mattel Children's Hospital presented a case. So this is a 16-year-old young man with shortness of breath on exertion. He has no comorbidities and a pectus index of 5.5. The plan was to do a chest wall reconstruction. And the first question is, in addition to multimodal pain medication, what do you recommend for perioperative pain control? There are so many options. So let's see what Dr. Sean St. Peter had to tell us about this. He's a pediatric surgeon at Children's Mercy Hospital in Kansas City. We of course struggled with postoperative pain management as everybody did. And we had completed a randomized trial, 110 patients, to epidural and PCA. And in that study, the epidurals didn't really drop off. So neither epidural or PCA was doing the trick at Dr. St. Peter's Hospital. So they decided to start a new trial looking into cryoanalgesia. So we were enrolling in this study. We had about 30 patients in each group when we tried the first cryotherapy. And when that patient went home on post-op day one, equipoise was lost. Once you see it, it's sort of a different game. So what Dr. St. Peter is saying is that after cryoanalgesia, he didn't want to try any more epidural or PCA. But what is cryoanalgesia? Cryoanalgesia consists of the use of cold temperatures for analgesia. The low temperatures cause a conduction block resulting in an interruption of pain impulses to the brain. Awesome. And how do you do it? We currently put the camera on the top and the probe through the bottom. But you can see how they're separated. One's an inner space above. That just keeps them out of each other's way. And you literally just count down to the fourth rib and then freeze underneath it. It's two minutes per rib. We do four through seven. You're not supposed to go eight or below because you can get some abdominal wall paralysis. And what impact did you see in the patients? What we saw there is the length of stay where we just couldn't get below four days. All of a sudden became one. And what about the use of opioids? What impact we have on our median morphine equivalents? And they're not even really on the same planet. But not everyone is so excited about cryoanalgesia. And Dr. Victor Garcia, a pediatric surgeon from Cincinnati Children's Hospital, explained why. I agree with Sean. It works. I mean, it is great. One day. Yeah, no. So what I'm concerned about is that there are no long-term studies. But I believe we just don't know. We don't have the long-term data. Dr. Garcia is explaining that even though cryoanalgesia seemed to work, he is worried about future adverse effects, such as chronic neuropathic pain. You know, unlike drugs, medical devices and implants are not, are not required to undergo clinical trials before they're introduced into the market. What does that mean? For medications, the FDA requires clinical trials with long-term clinical results before approving them for use. For medical devices and techniques, this is not a requirement. And therefore, for things like cryoanalgesia, there are just not as many long-term results reported. And so, what do you use in your hospital, Dr. Garcia? About 100 patients. Looking to Sean's point, as far as, and this was a comparison between epidurals as well as, not perivertebral, but erector spinae catheter. An erector spinae catheter? What is that? Very, very briefly. Erectospinae catheters, they are placed by the pain team with ultrasound guidance. They're not in the vertebral space, but they are juxtaposed to it. Those catheters stay in for five days. The hospital stays two days. Third day, while they're outside, the catheters are pulled out by the family. It is on a pump. It's automated. Okay, great. Our hospital stays are two days. We've been able to reduce the opioid requirements, not only in the hospital, but also outside of the hospital. So, I'm, from the perspective, at least with our experience, that we do have an alternative. Is it going to be one day? No. But is it certainly much less than the four or five days that we saw with epidurals? Absolutely, yes. I was a cryo skeptic. That's Dr. Steven Rothenberg from Rocky Mountain Children's Hospital. My biggest issues with it were the added time. The other is concerned about the neuralgia and the complications that I'd heard about. And I will tell you that it took me about four cases to realize, because most of our patients went home on day two or three. But it's not just when they go home. It's how they feel when they go home. And the cryo has been unbelievable. I mean, I feel bad that I waited so long. I accept Vic's concerns and criticisms. And I agree, perhaps, you know, that we do need to have a registry for this. But it has totally changed the management of these patients. And let's see what Dr. Justin Wagner from UCLA had to say about multimodal pain control. You know, Tylenol and NSAIDs are already widely used. Prestidex can help for a gentle wake up. A dose of dexamethasone can help with post-anesthetic nausea. Ketamide in the hands of someone who's used it might be a good way to avoid opioids. And if you have child life specialists, mindfulness resources and a supportive group of physical therapists, they can be enormously helpful. So for multimodal therapy, the best treatments are preoperative counseling, gabapentin both pre and postoperatively, and then methadone, clonidine, bowel regimen medications and antiemetics. That was Dr. Todd Ponsky from Cincinnati Children's Hospital. In Nebraska, where I trained Steve Rayner, we'll tell you the length of stay there is under two days still. And they're off opioids by one week. Well, Dr. Wagner's numbers are almost as good as cryonotasia. I've heard that with cryonotasia, they are more percentage of flip it. Can you say what you think about that? So, typically if bars are going to flip, they're going to flip early and it's going to be because they were sitting in a funky inner space, they were sitting in a bad spot, the bar wasn't wrapped tight enough, or it wasn't secured well. And even then I would say, it's not the securing that does it. That bar's got to sit in a comfortable position before you start to secure it or it's probably not going to stay there. I do think that bar flippage is completely a surgical issue. Okay, so now we have the pain control management set. Cryoanalgesia has great results, but still don't know long term consequences. Erectospinal cathethos seem to be better than epidural. And a good multimodal pain control regimen could reach a two day length of stay. But what about the actual NAS procedure? Let's see what Dr. Lee had to ask the experts. How do you base your bar measurements, the length of your bar? I think things have changed and maybe the bars are more stable with different lengths of them. I mean, what a great transition from talking about bar flippage and technique. I just wanted to bring up that some physics minded surgeons did this really interesting computational model to show the sites of stress points with traditionally U-shaped bars in contrast to shorter flat bars. So what Dr. Wagner is explaining is that shorter bars have more pressure on the sternum. Therefore, they are more stable. So the tendency is to have shorter bars, though this is not standardized. Are there any special maneuvers when passing the introducer behind the sternum that is found useful? You know, I now do a sternal elevator. So we use the sternal elevator at Akron Children's. That was Dr. Mark Wolkine from Akron Children's Hospital. I use the sternal elevator in about 10% of the cases. I think in the average kid that we do that's younger, you see well enough with thoracoscopy, you don't need to do it. Having the sternum elevated in those really deep stiff pectuses allows you less tissue damage and have a better repair. Steve, we use the elevator in every case, but it offers, there's no guesswork. I mean, I think one of the things that Steve mentioned is being able to go in and out at the same inner space, I think is important. And so, yes, we use the elevator in every instance. Do you still use the sub-xiphoid incision now that you've adapted cryo and have thoracoscopy? Yeah. Yeah, we do. Thoracoscopy or sternal elevator or vacuum bell in the operating room or sub-xiphoid incision, the idea is to not injure the heart. So whatever technique helps you do that, I think is the technique you ought to use. That was Dr. Wythe Holcomb, a clinical professor of surgery at the Vanderbilt University Medical School. Totally agree. Safety first. We talked about right to left, left to right, the age-old question. I'm interested to see what the current thoughts are when you pass the bar. I go from the left chest to the right chest because if you go from the right chest to the left chest, you're coming down and whatever you're passing across is pointing right at the ventricle. I've always done right to left. I never even thought about doing left to right, I must admit. So I'm also learning something new and think that's a really fascinating idea. That was Dr. Bethany Slater from the University of Chicago. It's interesting. I learned left to right and then I went back to right to left and found personally right to left being easy, but I'm also using a sternal elevator and thoracoscopy, so I go the whole distance as far as ensuring safety. I actually always did it left to right. I think it's surgeon preference and as long as you have the sub-sternal space well dissected and everything's clear, then it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Okay, great. So to sum up, remember that for pain management, cryoanalgesia has a lot of interest and support, but we still have to figure out long-term data. Other methods of analgesia include erector spinae catheters, epidurals, and multimodal pain regimens. Regarding this procedure, ways to ensure safe passage of the introducer include sternal elevation or sub-xiphoid incisions. Many people pass the bar from left to right, but whatever ensures good visualization and safety is the most important. And there you have it, our 2021 update course session on pain management and repair techniques for pectus ascivata. Now, if you loved this episode, go ahead and like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Follow us on social media. If you're listening to an Apple podcast or on Spotify, please leave us a rating and a review and be sure to download the Stay Current and Pediatric Surgery app. It's in the Apple App Store and in the Google Play Store. And as a reminder, don't forget we have another virtual event coming up soon at the end of August. It's the 10th annual pediatric surgery update course. Todd has been doing this for 10 years and it's awesome. We'll have it in person in Cleveland and everyone can join us virtually. It's happening on Tuesday at 30 starting at 9 a.m. Eastern Time. Check out the link in the description below to join us. But until next time, I'm Cecilia. I'm Ellen. I'm Todd Ponsky. And remember, knowledge should be free.

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Not medical advice · citation policy: https://library.globalcastmd.com/ai